Interview with Legendary Creators Yuji Nunokawa & Akemi Takada
Translation by: Harley Acres
An interview with Studio Pierrot Chief Advisor Yuji Nunokawa (布川ゆうじ) and character designer Akemi Takada (高田明美), arranged by Legend Voice Actor Project (レジェンド声優プロジェクト).
Editorial Department: First of all, please tell us about the first encounter between the two of you.
Yuji Nunokawa: We met at Tatsunoko Production (Ryuko Production at that time), didn't we? I was a director and she joined the character room as a designer. Was it 1976?
Akemi Takada: I forgot when we first met, but the most impressive thing was when I saw the cherry blossoms, which also served as a welcome party for newcomers.
Nunokawa: I don't remember that at all, but it seems that she was dancing the okama dance (laughs).
Takada: Mr. Nunokawa quit Tatsunoko Production after a while, so it was five and a half years later, with Urusei Yatsura (1981) that we started working together formally. For me, it was a work that gave me an opportunity to become independent.
Editorial department: Why did you choose Takada-san as a character designer for Urusei Yatsura?
Nunokawa: Urusei Yatsura was going to be a work with a lot of exposure, right? (laughs) Since it was to be broadcast at 7:30 pm, I wanted to design it so that it would not make viewers feel uncomfortable. Also, the original manga is by Rumiko Takahashi who is also a woman. So, I was thinking of asking a female designer from the earliest stages. If you are a male designer, it seems that the desires of a man will come to the fore. [1]
Editorial department: So you remembered Takada-san.
Takada: Actually, I can't say this out loud, but when I was at Tatsunoko Production, I was drawing the main character of Studio Pierrot's Miss Machiko (まいっちんぐマチコ先生) (1981), which I started making shortly before that as a part-time job.
Nunokawa: I was watching her handiwork there, so I was looking for a place to make use of her. Akemi Takada's delicate touch is perfect for Urusei Yatsura. Also, this is a coincidence, but her parents' house was directly opposite the Musashi-Koganei Pierrot office (at that time) (laughs).
Takada: He could call me in for a re-take in three minutes (laughs).
Nunokawa: Of course, that wasn't the reason for the decision, right?
Editorial department: However, it was an era when it was not possible to send images by e-mail like now, so it is very helpful to be nearby. What did you think, Takada-san, when you received the request?
Takada: I was still affiliated with Tatsunoko Production when I was asked to do it, but at that time Tatsunoko had a huge decrease in the number of original works, and the character design room was disappearing. It was starting to feel that a little boring... Yoshitaka Amano, who was an academic advisor, also quit. [2]
Editorial department: There was something like a rescue ship on the way. But isn't Urusei Yatsura the same in the sense that it is a series based on an original work?
Takada: The timing when the project started was not very long from when the original work started, as there were only about four books out. I wondered if there was room for some character design work because the color of Lum's hair wasn’t clearly established.
Editorial department: Certainly, looking back at the cover of a book, it is green, reddish, rainbow-colored, it was pretty inconsistent.
Takada: So in the anime, I chose this green to match the color of Lum's tiger-striped bikini.
Nunokawa: Is this a specially made color?
Takada: No, this is an existing green.
Editorial department: What does "existing" mean?
Takada: In animation, we prepare a "color chart" that defines colors that can be used in advance. "Existing" means it was one of the colors contained in the chart.
Editorial department: I see. You can't use an infinite amount of colors.
Takada: At Studio Pierrot, there were many people involved in Tatsunoko Production, so I took over the color chart, but the number of colors has doubled. Pierrot's first work, The Wonderful Adventures of Nils (ニルスのふしぎな旅/Nirusu no Fushigi na Tabi) (1980-) was a style that used a lot of neutral colors, so the existing charts couldn't handle it. So I didn't have much trouble with the colors. Rather, it was fun to choose from many colors. In Urusei Yatsura, I decided the color of most of the main characters.
Nunokawa: By the way, increasing the number of color charts means that the number of paints to be distributed to the staff will increase, so it is difficult on a budget. Now that it's digital, it's a thing of the past, but when I think about it now, it's hard to believe we used to have to do it that way (laughs).
Editorial department: Did you still limit your colors?
Takada: I always think in terms of a chart. Ah, but in Creamy Mami, the Magic Angel (魔法の天使クリィミーマミ/Maho no Tenshi Kurimi Mami) (1983-), which I did after Urusei Yatsura, I made a new hair color for the main character, Yu. Therefore, the color chart of Creamy Mami, the Magic Angel has two more colors than Urusei Yatsura.
Editorial department: Please tell us a little more about the character design of Urusei Yatsura. Which character did Takada have the most difficulty with?
Takada: Definitely Lum. When you are working from something that is based on source material, I read the manga and copy a lot of "good faces" from it to make it converge to the final form, but it took a lot of time for Lum. At the beginning of the series, the character drawn by Rumiko Takahashi was not consistent, so it was difficult.
Editorial department: On the other hand, is there a character that you can draw quickly?
Takada: Hmmm, I don't really remember the details from those days. The production period was very short, and it was so hectic. Even though the broadcast started on October 14, we had only started work in July. (bitter smile)
Editorial department: Wow, was it only three months?
Nunokawa: Urusei Yatsura was a very difficult work to find a sponsor for, and due to the balance with a certain company that had been holding the broadcast frame at that time, it was difficult to get the go-ahead from Fuji TV. The final "decision" was on August 22, two months before the broadcast. As expected, if we started making the show from there, it wouldn't be ready in time, so there was a behind-the-scenes situation that I started production in July.
Editorial department: How short was it compared to a typical work?
Nunokawa: At that time, it was common to start about half a year prior. Nowadays, the "production committee method" involving many companies has become mainstream, so it has been moved forward, but at that time it was often the case that sponsors were not decided and it was not possible to move ahead. Well, Urusei Yatsura is still an extreme example (laughs).
Editorial department: Are there any episodes that have left an impression on you since the start of the broadcast? I have an image of Urusei Yatsura that new characters are appearing every week.
Takada: It was definitely a work with many characters. Moreover, the smaller the budget, the more characters there are to make the images more exciting. At the wildest times, I was drawing a huge number of main character costume changes and new characters only for one appearance, which were itemized on three to four sheets of A4 paper.
Editorial department: It seems difficult just to draw different faces...
Takada: That's right. However, at that time, I just blacked out the faces! It was so much effort!!
Nunokawa: ...I remember it well (laughs).
Takada: When I saw it was completed, I was just like, gwaa! I also remember that there were many costume changes for Lum. Especially when she wore a courtly kimono, it was hard (laughs).
Editorial department: Last time we talked about Urusei Yatsura, but this time we would like to ask you about Creamy Mami, the Magic Angel which was aired after that and became the cornerstone of the subsequent "Pierrot Magical Girl Series." First of all, please tell us how this project started.
Nunokawa: About two years after the anime Urusei Yatsura started, the Shonen Sunday editorial department of Shogakukan, which serialized the original manga, gave us various opinions about the production of Oshii-chan (Director Mamoru Oshii) (laughs). It's just hearsay from Kitty Films, so I don't know how accurate it is, but the anime version of Urusei Yatsura was definitely seen to be "Mamoru Oshii World" rather than "Rumiko Takahashi World". [3]
Editorial department: I think he brought out a new charm. However, it may have been a disappointment from some of the original fans...
Nunokawa: But that's because Oshii-chan was throwing all his energy into Urusei Yatsura. That's why I tried to respect it, but there are people around me who don't think that way. (bitter smile) While that was being conveyed to him, Oshii-chan offered to move on after the movie version of Beautiful Dreamer (1984) and get out of the TV series.
Editorial department: It's a famous episode among anime fans, isn't it? At about the same time, the production company also switched from Studio Pierrot to Studio Dean.
Nunokawa: However, I didn't want to end what I had cultivated in this work. At that time, I was asked to do a new magical girl series following Magical Princess Minky Momo (魔法のプリンセス ミンキー モモ/Maho no Purinsesu Minkī Momo) (1982) that Ashi Productions was doing... That's why I decided to work on Creamy Mami, the Magic Angel by transferring many staff members, including character designer Takada-chan and screenwriter Ito-chan (Kazunori Ito).
Editorial department: I see. So that’s the background on that.
Nunokawa: Also, from a business perspective, I wanted to join the members of "production", which handles everything from planning to entertainment, rather than the production side that just makes the anime. From my experience up to that point, I knew that the former alone would not be able to continue financially for a long time. Creamy Mami, the Magic Angel is Studio Pierrot's first "production" work. In that sense as well, it was a very memorable work.
Editorial department: Even if it was taken on by Takada-san, wasn't it worthwhile because it was an anime without an original series?
Nunokawa: Takada-chan did a lot of original works during the Tatsunoko era, so it's wasn’t your first time, right?
Takada: Right. Therefore, I didn't have much anxiety about doing the work. However, there were a lot of retakes (redoing) by saying that it was created from scratch. I went to Yomiko Advertising Co., Ltd. with Mr. Ito, who wrote the script, had a meeting in the conference room, and I redrew it based on the request I received.
Editorial department: What was the issue they wanted addressed?
Takada: It seems that it was quite important to put out a doll as a related product. Since the project was based on the premise of commercialization, there were many requests related to it.
Nunokawa: It might be a walking stick. I wanted to change the design so that it would look similar every time, so in the latter half of the series, Magical Emi, the Magic Star (魔法のスターマジカルエミ/Maho no Sutaa Majikaru Emi) (1985-), I made it a big heart shape instead of a stick shape. But then I was told, "This is a sumo referee’s fan," so in the next series Pastel Yumi, the Magic Idol (魔法のアイドルパステルユーミ/Maho no Aidoru Pasuteru Yumi) (1986-), it returned to its original stick shape.
Editorial department: There were very detailed requests for each item, huh?
Nunokawa: After that, it seems that there was an intention to differentiate from Toei's witch girl who was popular at that time.
Takada: Anyway, I was told to make the head bigger (lower the head) (laughs). But if you make your head bigger, it looks like a gag even though it's a girl. I had a lot of trouble with that.
Editorial department: It was also unique that Mami's hair color after transformation was purple. How did you decide on that?
Takada: Oh, somehow (laughs). However, I wanted to make it a different color from the pink of the peach in Magical Princess Minky Momo. That's why I chose purple but also proposed brown and orange.
Nunokawa: Purple has an adult-like mysterious image.
Takada: After the 30th anniversary event of Creamy Mami, the Magic Angel, I had more opportunities to meet people who were fans of the work at that time, but various people said, "This work made me like purple." I was happy to be hear that.
Nunokawa: This purple is really exquisite. If it's too dark, it will be vulgar, and if it's too thin, it will lose its presence.
Editorial department: From the perspective of Nunokawa-san, what do you think is the appeal of character designer Akemi Takada?
Nunokawa: Her overall sense is outstanding. I'm surprised that her colors haven't been matched at all even after more than 30 years. Now, when I get off at the station in Akihabara and see the pictures of the latest characters scattered all over the place, her’s haven’t lost out at all. Rather, all recent works look the same. Does Takada-san know someone who’s work looks like your work?
Takada: Hmmm, not really. But what about anime character design that is difficult for other people to draw? (laughs)
Editorial department: What is Takada-san's particular focus when drawing characters?
Takada: I used to draw when I was young, but recently I've come to think a lot about what it means to be "cute".
Nunokawa: What do you mean?
Takada: I think that "prettiness" has the power to neutralize the fighting spirit. Studio Pierrot’s magical girls were cute and gentle,and could use other means besides fighting I to solve problem.
Nunokawa: All the heroines now are fighting.
Editorial department: Earlier, you talked about the 30th anniversary of Creamy Mami, the Magic Angel, but probably because of that, you can see Mami in many places. Do you have any big projects planned in the future?
Nunokawa: No, unfortunately there is no concrete story. I'm really grateful that Shoko Nakagawa was excited about it, but I don't think there is anything in the works (laughs).
Editorial department: Well, that's a shame. I think there are many people who secretly expected it...
Nunokawa: By the way, something interesting is happening about the Mami boom, and the fan base has changed considerably from the time of it was originally broadcast. At that time, we looked at fans of Urusei Yatsura, and it was like 70% men and 30% women, but in this boom, most of them are female fans.
Takada: It's like a girl who didn't buy a toy such as a makeover stick when she was a kid and then becomes an adult. Actually, we have events held not only in Japan but also overseas. It’s especially popular in Hong Kong, some limited-time stores have been opened for the 30th anniversary.
Editorial department: It's also popular overseas!
Takada: Also, I heard that Shimamura-san, who designs clothes, has released character T-shirts for Creamy Mami, the Magic Angel several times, and that they are popular with children.
Editorial department: It's amazing that even small children who have never seen the anime will support it. Isn't that exactly what Takada-san's design power is all about?
Takada: Creamy Mami, the Magic Angel is my most memorable work because it is a completely original work and I was in charge of the character design by myself. Moreover, it is also the work that is the most different from my original design. I'm glad that it is well liked.
Editorial department: By the way, Takada-san has the image of the Studio Pierrot Magical Girl series, but you were also in charge of character design for the mecha anime Mobile Police Patlabor for boys, which is the opposite of that. Can you tell us a story about that?
Takada: In the mid-1980s, I sometimes went on a hot spring trip with my close friends, such as Mr. Ito and Mr. Masami Yuki, the manga artist. The idea behind Patlabor came up in the "pretend planning" that we did there. It was decided to present it to Bandai Visual Unozawa at the Ito family's home Christmas party that year and animate it.
Editorial department: That is all 6 OVA episodes that are now called "Early Days".
Takada: The price of each OVA at that time was very high, and it was hard to come by. Therefore, we decided to develop it as a low-priced OVA series. First of all, it was decided to do six, and if it sold, it was said that we could continue.
Editorial department: The result was a big hit, wasn’t it?
Takada: As it was the first non-fantasy work, I had a lot of trouble deciding what kind of design to make, but as a result, I am grateful that it has grown significantly in popularity. Even now, new works are still being made... I mean, Nunokawa-san and Mami are really excited, but is there really nothing planned? (laughs)
Nunokawa: Eh... is that the story from there? (Laughs) I made Fancy Lala, the Magic Stage (魔法のステージ・ファンシーララ/Maho no Suteji Fanshii Rara) (1998) with that in mind.
Editorial department: It was a hot topic at that time because it was the first Pierrot Magical Girl series in 12 years. Of course, the character designs were by Takada-san.
Takada: By the time I participated, the outline of the story had already been decided, so I couldn't participate in it as a character designer, but even so, I added some male characters saying "more romance!" I wonder if stylist Komi was particularly successful. He did a good job in the final episode.
Editorial department: The technical capabilities of the animation industry have also improved, and it was also attractive to be able to reproduce Takada-san's touch in more detail. And even when I saw this, I wanted to make Creamy Mami, the Magic Angel with this quality.
Nunokawa: I understand that, but it's very difficult to make a continuation of Creamy Mami, the Magic Angel because it's a truly complete story. Even if I remake it, I still have to change the settings a lot. No, in fact, we have received various stories. However, there is a big risk in recreating a hit. I don't want it to be something that old fans would say, "It's not my Creamy Mami, the Magic Angel."
Editorial department: For example, how about remaking only the live part?
Takada: Let's remake the last concert!
Nunokawa: I see... Is there such a way... I wonder if I should think about it for a moment...
Editorial department: By all means!
Takada: Oh yeah, I have one thing I would like to announce here, is that okay?
Editorial department: Yes, what is it?
Takada: Some raw illustrations such as the LD jacket picture of OVA Creamy Mami, the Magic Angel Eternal Once More have not been returned to me. If you have this, please contact Studio Pierrot!
Editorial department: If you have any idea, please let us know!... Finally, please tell us what you want to do in the anime world in the future.
Takada: First of all, I will do my best for the short cat animation CoCO & NiCO currently being broadcast within the framework of TOKYO MX Nyanda? Full TV. It is being broadcast / distributed in about 160 countries around the world, but there are still limited ways to watch it in Japan, so I would like to expand this.
Editorial department: What is the highlight of CoCO & NiCO?
Takada: The cuteness of cats (laughs). Since each story has only one minute, there are some places where you can't understand the story until you watch the next one, but it is also distributed online, so please take a look. The main characters, Coco and Nico, look like the negatives and positives of Creamy Mami the Magic Angel, but I hope you feel a different sort of charm. It is also recommended for people who like princesses.
Editorial department: I think there are many people who weren’t aware of it because it was mainly overseas work. If you didn't know this, please take this opportunity to seek it out.
Takada: The solo exhibition centered on Creamy Mami at the Tokyu Kichijoji store held in February this year was also well received, and will continue next year. Besides the exhibition, the double mini framed works are sold in Tokyu at all branches as well as the New Year and summer bags, mail-order-made paintings. There is also scheduled to open shopping site of the goods. There will also be calendars as well. Mami fans, please look forward to future developments.
Nunokawa: I want Takada-chan to continue painting as an active player in the industry.
Takada: Then, let's do Mami's new work after all!! (laughs)
Footnotes
- [1] Mamoru Oshii stated something similar in his interview when discussing working on Urusei Yatsura. "I suppose the original story of Urusei Yatsura is based on women’s desires. When I read it I thought it was a woman’s world, and when I was adapting the series I based it on a man’s wishes, because I can’t think any other way. I guess she didn’t like that."
- [2] Yoshitaka Amano (天野喜孝) began his career at Tatsunoko Productions before his career primarily focused on illustration for the Final Fantasy video game series and as a fine artist.
- [3] Mamoru Oshii touches on this a bit. The producers of the Urusei Yatsura anime, Shigekazu Ochiai (落合茂一) had differences of opinion with Oshii. Ochiai would eventually publish a book in 1987 entitled My Fledgling Producer's Diary (僕のプロデューサーかけだし日誌/Boku no Puroduusaa Kakedashi Nikki) where he describes his problems with Mamoru Oshii. Readers are often curious about Rumiko Takahashi's feelings about Mamoru Oshii's work on Urusei Yatsura. "The Time We Spoke Endlessly About the Things We Loved" and "Three-Way Interview" are two articles that are recommended so that readers can make up their own minds about her feelings in her own words. Additionally in her 35th anniversary interview with Comics Natalie she expresses her enjoyment of Oshii's work, though by contrast in her Italian interview she gave a vague answer that was more negative (though she did not name Oshii explicitly).
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