Natsuhiko Kyogoku x Rumiko Takahashi

Translated by: Harley Acres

Kyogoku: I have been a regular reader of yours for 35 years, ever since your debut, Katte na Yatsura. There are many questions I would like to ask you, but I am not sure where to start.

Takahashi: Thank you very much. I have also been reading your books since The Summer of the Ubume. ^[1] There are many fans of Kyogoku-sensei around me.

Kyogoku: I had heard from someone that Takahashi-sensei was reading my book, but I absolutley couldn't believe it. I thought it was just an urban legend (laughs). At my age, I am in the Urusei Yatsura generation of Rumiko Takahashi fans. The first generation.

Takahashi: How old were you then?

Kyogoku: The serialization started when I was in high school. If you were 10 years younger than me, you would be in the Maison Ikkoku generation, and even younger would be in the Ranma 1/2 and Inuyasha generations, and my teenage niece is reading Kyokai no RINNE right now. It is a tremendous feat to have been at the forefront of shonen manga for 35 years and to have consistently published works that have captured the hearts of each generation.

Takahashi: No, no, I am in awe. I feel like it has been 35 years since I made my debut. Thanks to you, we have a wide age range of readers.

The common denominator is Shigeru Mizuki.

Kyogoku: I've always wondered... Takahashi-san, do you like yokai? ^[2] In a sense, Urusei Yatsura is full of yokai, and Inuyasha is a yokai manga, isn't it?

Takahashi: Yes, I do. When I was a child, the world was in a yokai boom. The Gegege no Kitaro anime was just being broadcast, and there was a lot of yokai on TV and in magazines. Perhaps it was because of being imprinted by this I naturally made yokai appear in my work even if I was not consciously thinking about it.

Kyogoku: Is that so? Takahashi's works are full of items that people in the yokai field would react to unintentionally. The first Urusei Yatsura was full of oni, kappa, devils, tengu, and snow women, and every episode was full of yokai. However, Urusei Yatsura is not a direct descendant of Shigeru Mizuki. It is basically a romantic comedy. At the time, there was no connection between Shigeru Mizuki's world view and romantic comedies. No matter how you look at it, Mizuki-sensei's style is not a romantic comedy (laughs).

Takahashi: That's right. Mizuki-sensei created the basis of yokai manga. ^[3] I managed to find a gap in Urusei Yatsura so that it would not be an imitation of his work. So, my knowledge of yokai was rather sketchy, and I was afraid that Kyogoku-sensei would scold me if he met me (laughs).

Kyogoku: Nowadays, it is commonplace to see demons as beautiful girls or reapers as beautiful boys, but I think such a feeling hardly existed before Urusei Yatsura. I was really shocked that something like this could be done using Mizuki-like elements. Moreover, it has elements of science fiction, a school story, and slapstick gags. I think it was a truly epoch-making work.

Takahashi: It was just a jumble of influences from various manga artists, but it is true that there were probably no works like that that "put it all together."

Kyogoku: I am aware that I learned how to create novels from Mizuki-sensei's manga, but if that was all I did, I would have just reworked Shigeru Mizuki into a novel, and I don't need that (laughs). In the process of conversion, I was influenced by various writers, and I think I learned a lot from Takahashi's works.

I think I may have used Urusei Yatsura as the basic software to rearrange Mizuki-sensei's base. I think it fits well to think of Shigeru Mizuki as a novelist via Rumiko Takahashi.

Did you notice that, Takahashi-san?

Takahashi: No, not at all. I didn't even think you were reading this. I am grateful, but I am in a cold sweat (laughs).

Kyogoku: It's not about the surface, or the theme, or the gadgets, but the way you set it up, or the OS system so to speak, or something like that. I have been following high-quality works in real time for 15 years now, since I became a novelist, so I am considerably influenced by you. By chance, I came across Kunio Yanagita and I think you are more influential to me than him (laughs). ^[4]

I love the sub-characters!

Takahashi: The sheer volume of knowledge in your novels is overwhelming, but how much research do you do?

Kyogoku: I don't do any research. I just write the story and check it later. It's a novel, so it's okay to lie, but I'll get in trouble.

Takahashi: No, I can't believe it. Your writing is so wonderful, isn't it? When I read it, images come to mind and I find myself wanting to read it again and again, even though it is a very thick book. ^[5] In The Iron Rat's Cage (鉄鼠の檻/Tesso no Ori), all the monks in the book have different personalities. I was impressed by the way he was able to portray such a large number of people just by writing.

Kyogoku: They are all monks. It is hard to distinguish between them in a silhouette quiz (laughs). However, even if their attributes are similar at first glance, they can be made to appear as different personalities depending on how they are drawn. I think I learned a lot about this technique from Takahashi-sensei's works. Shutaro Mendo and Tatewaki Kuno are similar only in their settings and positions, but they are completely different personalities, aren't they?

Takahashi: Yes, they are a bit similar.

Kyogoku: Your works have a huge number of characters, from the main characters to the sub-characters, but do you remember them all?

Takahashi: I remember most of them. Some of them I don't remember drawing, but most of them are in my memory.

Kyogoku: That's right. Urusei Yatsura and Ranma 1/2 are ensemble dramas with countless characters. That's why we can't forget them even if they appear only a few times. Do you set up such character attributes in advance?

Takahashi: No, I don't. Except for some of the main characters, I come up with ideas as the story requires. Personality is largely determined by the reactions of the characters.

Kyogoku: The balance of character shifts is exquisite. I think the skill in character creation is unparalleled. By the way, I prefer the sub-characters who appear only occasionally to the main characters who appear in the story frequently.

Takahashi: How do you mean?

Kyogoku: My top recommendation is the Principal of Tomobiki High School. Even though he is just sipping tea on the kotatsu, his presence is very convincing. I love the principal. He might be my ideal person in life (laughs).

Takahashi: He's very austere (laughs). In terms of the number of characters, Kyogoku-sensei's works have quite a lot of characters. If you include sub-characters, the number is likely to be quite large. It is interesting to see how the worlds are linked, with characters who appeared in one work appearing in another.

Kyogoku: Some people often say that characters who have nothing to do with the main storyline should not be included, but I don't agree. The interest of a work depends not only on the story, but also on what is happening in each scene. If that is the case, it would definitely be more interesting if there were many strange characters and they were doing something here and there.

Takahashi: As a work becomes longer, the number of characters naturally increases. It is also fun to see new stories spreading out from there like branches and leaves.

Takahashi's work is a classic.

Kyogoku: I am also a big fan of the small elderly characters that you draw. I like Cherry, Happosai and Myoga. I was shocked when Godai's grandmother appeared in Maison Ikkoku. They are all so small (laughs). But they are strong. They have a great impact.

Takahashi: I rather like drawing old people. I enjoy deciding how to bend their hips. The way their hips shift can change their lives and even their personalities.

Kyogoku: That's a perfect statement. In works aimed at young people, middle-aged and older characters are often omitted. However, in Takahashi-sensei's works, beautiful young characters, elderly people with bent backs, and middle-aged tired office workers coexist without any sense of discomfort, and together they make the drama more exciting. I really like the way you scooped up that world.

Takahashi: When I was a child, I was surrounded by many elderly people, so it was easy for me to imagine what they were like.

Kyogoku: Moreover, it is wonderful that even though they are old people, they are not complacent. No matter how old they are, they are still fighting and hungry.

Takahashi: Eating is an absolutely essential part of life. I tend to write about it.

Kyogoku: That's the Mizuki-sensei taste (laughs). He shows us both the beautiful and the not-so-pretty parts of human beings in their entirety, and we can be harassed, moved, and laugh out loud. It can be read and enjoyed by any generation at any time. This kind of work is what we call a classic. I think Takahashi-sensei's works are already classics.

Takahashi: I am very flattered by your praise (laughs). Please continue to let us read your fascinating works.

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Footnotes

• [1] The Summer of Ubume (姑獲鳥の夏/Ubume no natsu) is the debut novel of Natsuhiko Kyogoku. It was published in 1994 and translated into English in 2009 by Vertical. The mystery novel follows Akihiko Chuzenji, bookstore owner/onmyodo investigating the disappearance of a man who's wife has remained pregnant for 20 months since his disappearance. Kyogoku is also a researcher of folklore and yokai in the mold of Shigeru Mizuki who comes up in the course of this interview. Takahashi had mentioned being a fan of his work five years earlier in an interview in the Yomiuri Shimbun.
• [2] For clarity sake to our readers, when referring to "yokai" (妖怪) in Rumiko Takahashi's work we use Viz's translated term of "demon". Mizuki's work always refers simply to "yokai" and that is the term which it is most strongly associated with. "Demon" is not always a perfect word to use in lieu of "yokai" but generally works well enough for series like Inuyasha where the creatures are plentiful and typically serve as fodder to be slaughtered en masse. However, to our readers who may be confused, the creatures in Mizuki and Takahashi's work are all referred to as "yokai" in the original Japanese.
• [3] Shigeru Mizuki (水木しげる) is important not only for his manga, but for cataloging the folklore of Japan. Many, if not most, of the yokai that appear in his work are actual yokai passed down through oral tradition in many small towns and villages throughout Japan. Mizuki researched, noted, and illustrated these creatures and spent many years researching and cataloging these stories. His most famous work is Gegege no Kitaro (ゲゲゲの鬼太郎) though he has also written many important autobiographical works about his time in the military during World War II. Takahashi speaks about Mizuki in a foreward for one of his manga which can be read here.
• [4] Kunio Yanagita (柳田國男) is a folklorist responsible for recording a number of Japanese tales and oral traditions. His most famous work, published in 1912 is Tono Monogatari (遠野物語) which deals with kappa and zashiki-warashi.
• [5] Kyogoku's work is known for its extreme length by Japanese standards. Many novels (both Japanese and Western) are sometimes divided into 上 (short for 上巻 "joukan" "the first scroll") and 下 (short for 下巻 "gekan" "the last scroll"). Japanese books are divided in two to make them easier to carry for reading on the train or carrying in one's pocket. Some of Kyogoku's books are over 800 pages. Because he was also a graphic designer he is heavily involved in the cover design and binding of his books as well.

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